mens rea
How many people in this country actively commit crime? By this I don't mean offenses that I would consider 'technically illegal' but essentially victimless crimes, e.g. letting your 16 year old kid drink a glass of wine with dinner or even smoking pot or downloading music illegally.
I am talking about the real deal, where you are stealing, pimping whores, or selling crystal meth to kids... I get the sense that outside of the bubble in which I live, stuff like this happens a lot. Which basically makes me think about the fact that a large percentage of our population, maybe 30 percent (pure SWAG), is ignoring the laws which theoretically they consented to abiding by.
I don't think this was a problem in previous modes of society where laws were imposed by a religious authority or by the upper classes upon the lower classes. But it seems weirdly hypocritical in a supposedly democratic system.
No?
I am talking about the real deal, where you are stealing, pimping whores, or selling crystal meth to kids... I get the sense that outside of the bubble in which I live, stuff like this happens a lot. Which basically makes me think about the fact that a large percentage of our population, maybe 30 percent (pure SWAG), is ignoring the laws which theoretically they consented to abiding by.
I don't think this was a problem in previous modes of society where laws were imposed by a religious authority or by the upper classes upon the lower classes. But it seems weirdly hypocritical in a supposedly democratic system.
No?
posted by e-kvetcher at 11:38 AM
4 Comments:
That reminds me of Socrates, who refused to escape his death sentence when he had the chance.When his friends and would-be saviors asked him why he wouldn't escape, he explained (at great length) that since he had lived in Athens all his life, never left even for a little while, by choice, that because he spent his life espousing his love for Athens and democracy, its laws and its government, he would be committing an act of treason, cowardice, and hypocrisy were he to evade the very law, the very democratic system, he loved and respected so much.
Not everyone is as noble as Socrates; and not everyone was given the same freedom of choice that he was, either. Had everyone the means and capabilities of choosing exactly where and under what system they would live if they could, we might be able to equate them with Socrates and his situation, but the fact of the matter is that many, probably most, of the people who commit the crimes you speak of don't have that kind of freedom, and hence that kind of choice. I don't think they are rebelling against the law so much as they're rebelling against their individual situations.
Thanks Miri - a very thoughtful analogy!
I would question whether the act of breaking the law is an act of active rebellion or just a consequence of their lifestyle not really being aligned with the "prescribed" correct lifestyle. Meaning they are not doing it "just to stick it to the man"
I always sort of see laws as a giant prisoner's dilemma. It is best for everyone if everybody keeps them, best for the criminals if only they break them. Laws are put in place to ensure that all sides reach the outcome that ensures the highest possible happiness, just as criminals may implant a "killing your family if you rat on me" arrangement.
That said, the arrangement is inherently a bit shaky because it's in everyone's best interest to break it without getting caught. The decision to break the law is influenced by a lot of factors- the benefit of doing so, the unpleasantness of the situation when you don't break it (poverty, etc.), how morally committed you feel to legality, and of course the risk and severity of punishment.
I don't think that most criminals do it to "stick it to the man". Most criminals are simply acting to maximize their happiness.
Also, in estimation of the percentage of people who break laws- does it matter that they break only a portion- that each law may have a far higher rate of obedience since different portions of the population are breaking different ones?
I don't think that most criminals do it to "stick it to the man". Most criminals are simply acting to maximize their happiness.
This is really what I am alluding to. It seems like a very high percentage of people feel that their happiness, or satisfaction with life, etc... does not align with following laws in general...
Also, in estimation of the percentage of people who break laws- does it matter that they break only a portion- that each law may have a far higher rate of obedience since different portions of the population are breaking different ones?
I am trying to look at these things in aggregate, more of a lifestyle thing not individual laws. Meaning that many of these people consistently disregard "the Law" as an entity worth of obedience. They may choose to not break those laws where the likelihood of punishment is high, but it is purely utilitarian, not ethical considerations.
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